(cont'd) And this is life eternal...

Continuing with Elder Holland's talk from my previous post:

We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His baptism at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four.

With these New Testament sources and more ringing in our ears, it may be redundant to ask what Jesus meant when He said, “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do.” On another occasion He said, “I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” Of His antagonists He said, “[They have] . . . seen and hated both me and my Father.” And there is, of course, that always deferential subordination to His Father that had Jesus say, “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.” “My father is greater than I.”

To whom was Jesus pleading so fervently all those years, including in such anguished cries as “O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me” and “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”?

Elder Holland starts out with:

"We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings..."

Then provides several examples from the scriptures:

1) The Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer (John 17)

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Verse 1 is a perfect self-evident example of the fact that Jesus Christ and God the Father are two separate beings. Is Jesus praying to himself? Of course, if you have already accepted the nature of God as defined in man made creeds, this is exactly what you believe!

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Verse 2 records Jesus referring to the power his Father has given him. This is yet another self-evident example of the correct nature of God and Jesus. "thou", "him", "he", "thou", "him"... how awkward for someone who believes God and Jesus are the same being! Traditional christian belief has Jesus talking to himself!

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Verse 3 is powerful. In one sentence, Jesus proclaims that life eternal is to know God and Jesus Christ, and in the same sentence Jesus teaches an important fact about God, that Jesus and God the Father are two separate beings, by proclaiming, "and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent".

The following verses continue to relentlessly teach Jesus and God the Father are two separate beings:

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee.

In the second half of verse 11, Jesus begins to the doctrine of "oneness".

Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Jesus asks the Father that his disciples may be one as God the Father and Jesus are one. This oneness cannot refer to the trinity as the disciples cannot be one as the trinitarian God and Jesus are one.

In the following versus, Jesus continues to pray for his disciples, all the while continuing to demonstrate that he is praying to someone other than himself:

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Perhaps a believer in the trinity may say that Jesus is pretending to pray to God the Father for the benefit of those overhearing his prayer. Someone recorded it! Hopefully that idea made you cringe. God is no deceiver.

In the next several versus, Jesus continues teaching about the "oneness" doctrine. He also includes another group in the oneness he desires for his apostles, those who believe Jesus based on the testimony of the apostles about Jesus.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Note in verse 21 that not only does Jesus want the apostles and those who believe their witness of Jesus to be one with each other, but he also wants them to be one with God and Jesus. In verse 22 and 23, Jesus reiterates the nature of the relationship he desires for the apostles and those who believe their witness of Jesus.

that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me

As stated above, the use of the word "one" by Jesus in this prayer refers to something completely different than the trinitarian idea that God the Father and Jesus are one and the same being. So what could it mean?

Jesus is praying that the apostles and those who believe their testimony of Jesus will willingly submit their will to the will of the Father, just as Jesus has. Faith in Jesus and God the Father yields love and humility. A willingness to submit to the will of God naturally follows.


Examing this one self-evident example of the correct nature of God, as recorded in the New Testament, was more involved than I had thought, but I think it is worthwhile. I will continue with Elder Holland's other examples in subsequent posts.